9.1 Novels are Like Elephants: Ken Liu and Rose Casey (SW)

It’s a bit surprising to hear a writer known for building worlds that incorporate deep historical research and elaborate technological details extol the virtues of play, but Ken Liu tells critic Rose Casey and host Sarah Wasserman that if “your idea of heaven doesn’t include play, then I’m not sure it’s a heaven people want to go to.” It turns out that Ken—acclaimed translator and author of the “silkpunk” epic fantasy series Dandelion Dynasty and the award-winning short story collection The Paper Menagerie—is deeply serious about play. Speaking about play as the key to technological progress, Ken and Rose discuss the importance of whimsy and the inextricable relationship between imagination and usefulness. For Ken, whose Dandelion Dynasty makes heroes of engineers instead of wizards or knights, precise machinery and innovative gadgets are born, like novels, of imagination. Ken himself might be best described as a meticulous, dedicated tinkerer—a writer playing with the materials and stories of the past to help us encounter new worlds in the present. So even if trying to explain his craft is “like asking fish how they swim,” Ken jumps in and discusses how he writes at such different lengths (hint: the longer the book, the more elephantine) and what he makes of different genre labels, from fantasy to historical fiction. We also learn why Ken is a fan of Brat Summer and still thinking about the Roman Empire.

Mentioned in this episode:

Ken Liu, Speaking Bones (2022), The Veiled Throne (2021), The Wall of Storms (2017), The Grace of Kings (2016), The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories (2016)
Cixin Liu, The Three-Body Problem (2014)
Rose Casey, Jessica Wilkerson, Johanna Winant, “An Open Letter from Faculty at West Virginia University” (2023)
Rose Casey, “In Defense of Higher Education” (2024)
Ursula K. LeGuin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas” (1973)
Homer, The Odyssey
Virgil, The Aeneid
John Milton, Paradise Lost
A.M. Turing, “Computing Machinery and Intelligence” (1950)
Brat Summer

Listen and Read:

Audio: Novels are Like Elephants: Ken Liu and Rose Casey (SW)

Transcript: 9.1 Novels are Like Elephants: Ken Liu and Rose Casey (SW)

10.2 Beautiful Sentences Matter. Billy-Ray Belcourt and Matt Hooley (SW) – Novel Dialogue

Can a novel with a singular voice also be a chorus? Can it reject the conventions of the novel and still be a novel? Poet, essayist, and novelist Billy-Ray Belcourt tells critic Matt Hooley how his desire to write a novel that “would sound like something else,” led him to produce A Minor Chorus, his experimental debut novel. Together they consider how Billy-Ray’s vulnerable, first-person narrator makes room for other voices, or more precisely, how it becomes “a voice that could focalize the desires of a community.” Billy-Ray discusses how his influences— queer theory, indigenous novelists, and contemporary autofiction—harmonize in his search for a new form. While author and critic trace the circuits of grief and melancholy that run from Roland Barthes to Billy-Ray, their conversation is joyful, reminding listeners that romance and intimacy sustain us and that beautiful sentences matter. His answer to this season’s signature question attests to the way that even the classroom can be refashioned, like the novel, into a chorus. Mentioned in this episode By Billy-Ray Belcourt: A Minor Chorus A History of My Brief Body This Wound is a World Also mentioned: The Summer Day “Arundhati Roy Sees Delhi as a Novel” Rachel Cusk, The Shakespeare and Company Interview “The State of the Political Novel: An Interview with Édouard Louis” “100 Things About Writing a Novel” Mourning Diary Ann Cvetkovich Joshua Whitehead Mourning and Melancholia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1. 10.2 Beautiful Sentences Matter. Billy-Ray Belcourt and Matt Hooley (SW) 43:57
2. 10.1 "Extreme Circumstances, Extreme Reactions:” Aaron Gwyn and Sean McCann (JP) 46:37
3. We Better Laugh About It: A Discussion with Álvaro Enrigue and Maia Gil’Adí 47:03
4. 9.5 Who Owns These Tools? Vauhini Vara and Aarthi Vadde (SW) 48:58
5. 9.4 “That In Between Time,” Fernanda Trías and Heather Cleary (MAT) 52:05

Cai, Rovina. Cover design. The Grace of Kings, Ken Liu, Saga Press, 2016. Front cover.